Noticed something in the Feb-24 dev-update...

[Aeox]

I guess we'll just have to sit here and accept the fact Derek that you are such an amazing business person and know so much about game development and the selling of games that you know more about the business side of things than the actual game developers.

What next, telling them how to program? Runic will do what Runic wants. If they feel fine releasing, they feel fine releasing. It is not our job to tell them what to do nor do we really have as much insight to the business as they do (at least to my knowledge you do not own a company that has sold a million copies of a game) so I say we leave it up to the guys that actually are a part of the industry to decide what a "sound business decision" is.

/steals popcorn.

I don't think Derek once stated he was an amazing business person, he did bring up some valid points that have been a focal point of various DIII vs. TL2 debates.

Obviously Runic knows what they are doing, it is their game and they can do what they please with it. However it is fine for someone to question their choices especially with the imminent release of 3 very talked about ARPG's. I think it is an interesting subject and I am interested to see how it will all play out, I am positive every game will do well as they each have their own niche markets.

I don't believe any company is worried about the release of another companies product, I believe they are focused on the quality of their own product. This for us fans/gamers is what we need from our developers, not companies chasing other titles just to earn a little extra buck.

We all know Runic is here to please their fans; offering a $20 AAA title with so much content, polishing, MP, great assets etc. They are not entirely focused on what business strategy will gain them the most revenue from this product they are focused on what makes them as a game developer special in the market, releasing a high quality game for a low price that answers to the requests of their fans.

Buy all the games, they will all be unique and special in their own way, and gladly none of them will be rushed so us as gamers get to appreciate high quality products for our well spent money.

[RayBanJockey]

imminent release of 3 very talked about ARPG's

3?

[Zidders]

Diablo III, Torchlight II, and i'm assuming Path of Exile, tho that isn't exactly
'imminent'', and neither is Grim Dawn. Path of Exile might be out by this fall, and Grim Dawn won't see the light of day until next year, maybe.

[Graeystone]

Since STEAM is involved and STEAM does love their Seasonal Sales, I'm going to hazard a guess and say TL2 will be out sometime in between STEAM's Spring and Summer Sales. To narrow it down even further - sometime before Fourth of July. This way TL2 doesn't get buried by seasonal/holiday sales.

[RizzRustbolt]

As long as it's out before the end of October, I'll be happy.

[Aeox]

Diablo III, Torchlight II, and i'm assuming Path of Exile, tho that isn't exactly
'imminent'', and neither is Grim Dawn. Path of Exile might be out by this fall, and Grim Dawn won't see the light of day until next year, maybe.

True, it has been quite hyped up but agree not like DIII and TLII. Grim Dawn won't be around till late next year I am guessing, but I have a good feeling about that game. Be good to have another ARPG to play after playing through DIII and TLII countless times

[Derekffs]

I guess we'll just have to sit here and accept the fact Derek that you are such an amazing business person and know so much about game development and the selling of games that you know more about the business side of things than the actual game developers.

What next, telling them how to program? Runic will do what Runic wants. If they feel fine releasing, they feel fine releasing. It is not our job to tell them what to do nor do we really have as much insight to the business as they do (at least to my knowledge you do not own a company that has sold a million copies of a game) so I say we leave it up to the guys that actually are a part of the industry to decide what a "sound business decision" is.

/steals popcorn.

/Worthless troll that makes people buy popcorn because they know one will come.

As others said I dont claim to know more about business then runic, but some things are common sense my dear friend, and this is why mmo's dont release in the same time frame, because it doesnt make good sense! which you dont either

But while preorders or a release date makes no buisness sense for you to increase sales, it does to the rest of the world!

[Zidders]

Play nice, kids.

[adoomgod]

Ooo Zidders, you said "kids" which landed me in hot water with kaos last time! Time-outs for everyone!

Seriously, let's try not to mock people, or judge others worth as worthless. After all the only way to know somebody's worth is to analyse their soul's Doom-point-value.

[kuinkz]

I have to say that if they release TL2 at the same timeframe as D3 I'll be playing TL2 only after finishing D3 nightmare. Sorry, but I just can't play two games at the same time.

I had the hope of an earlier release of TL2 but unfortunately things are what they are.

In my point of view, it's a big mistake to release TL2 close to the D3 release. I know they are different games but still the same essence. But that's just my point of view and who am I to judge.

/running away and screaming in fear from the behemoth popcorn beast.

[RizzRustbolt]

Ooo Zidders, you said "kids" which landed me in hot water with kaos last time! Time-outs for everyone!

Seriously, let's try not to mock people, or judge others worth as worthless. After all the only way to know somebody's worth is to analyse their soul's Doom-point-value.

I judge folks on an Oddball to Moriarty scale.

[amb2010]

-snip-

Numerous MMOs release near each other all the time, same for many other game genres. All of which do respectively well for their target audience so yes, games *can* and *do* release near each other all the time and can do well. Take the recent CoD and BF3. Both released within a few weeks of each other and CoD did indeed sell more with a total of $775 million a few weeks in. BF3 (haven't released sales figures AFAIK, but have given an estimate of units sold, 8 million~) totaled around $480 million at a monthly report call. Could it have done better if it released sooner? Maybe or not if the game wasn't in the best condition. Later? Possibly, or CoD could have just snagged more of the market and Bf3 would have done worse. Only other companies will understand the thinking of it since they know the inner workings of the market. So, again: Games of a similar genre can and do release near each other and STILL make a decent sales figure (480 million is nothing to sneeze at). If game development companies wouldn't release games based on another games release date, we'd have crap like DNF where we had to wait decades for a game.

My post was also totally serious, I'm tired of seeing people with no background in the gaming industry "apply" their common sense when it does not warrant being applied. Common sense says one wouldn't run into a building that's on fire, but for a fireman/woman that's a *daily* thing (well if there's a fire daily it is). Your common sense is just that, yours. It does not apply to everyone nor does it apply to every situation so telling people what they should be doing when you have no experience and very little understanding of the situation is quite a silly thing to do.

This is by no means trolling, just me being fed up with random people that think they know better than Runic. Leave the game design to the game designers and the marketing to the marketing people, they know better than you. Still though, feel free to demonstrate your worries. This is a forum and people have a freedom to think and believe what they want, just don't expect everyone to agree with you and not call you out on things that they disagree with.

EDIT: Fixed some stuff.

[bondo]

I say around xmas 2012. I doubt they'll be happy with their product until then.

[cakes]

an April/May release would be good. there's nothing really "big" happening in those months (as far as game releases go) and would give time for TL2 to get attention. also, if TL2 is released on Steam (complete with a big splash-ad on the front page that Steam usually has for new releases), that will contribute to sales. Steam + the low price of $15 will be good for the game.

I doubt D3 is gonna be released before MoP. and, MoP is most likely not being released until sometime in summer/early fall. I remember seeing something where Activision stated they only expect 1 game being released this year, its definitely gonna be MoP over D3/SC2exp.

Anyway, no matter when TL2 is released I will be getting it. Even though I love D2, I am not interested at all in D3. no one that worked on D2 is making D3 and it looks terrible. I also don't like how the game is Bnet only with no offline/direct connection play, the character classes suck, they're incorporating story bits from the garbage novels into the lore, and, they have the nerve to charge $60 for the game, I dislike companies who do that, the PC isn't the XBox360/PS3. the only real reason most people will be buying D3 is because it has the words "Diablo" and "Blizzard" on the box.

I like how TL2 is the more good old-school type dungeon "ARPG". I like having my character saved on my PC and being able to play offline/online with the same character. you also don't have to worry about loosing your character if the servers go down and what not, so you can still play. Tis one of the reasons I am a bit wearry about PSO2, since the characters are gonna be saved to the servers and the game is gonna be online only. :/ and, given Sega's track record.... *sigh*. Wish they where making that game like the original PSO with characters being both offline/online.

[Brixtan]

an April/May release would be good. there's nothing really "big" happening in those months (as far as game releases go) and would give time for TL2 to get attention. also, if TL2 is released on Steam (complete with a big splash-ad on the front page that Steam usually has for new releases), that will contribute to sales. Steam + the low price of $15 will be good for the game.

I doubt D3 is gonna be released before MoP. and, MoP is most likely not being released until sometime in summer/early fall. I remember seeing something where Activision stated they only expect 1 game being released this year, its definitely gonna be MoP over D3/SC2exp.

Anyway, no matter when TL2 is released I will be getting it. Even though I love D2, I am not interested at all in D3. no one that worked on D2 is making D3 and it looks terrible. I also don't like how the game is Bnet only with no offline/direct connection play, the character classes suck, they're incorporating story bits from the garbage novels into the lore, and, they have the nerve to charge $60 for the game, I dislike companies who do that, the PC isn't the XBox360/PS3. the only real reason most people will be buying D3 is because it has the words "Diablo" and "Blizzard" on the box.

I like how TL2 is the more good old-school type dungeon "ARPG". I like having my character saved on my PC and being able to play offline/online with the same character. you also don't have to worry about loosing your character if the servers go down and what not, so you can still play. Tis one of the reasons I am a bit wearry about PSO2, since the characters are gonna be saved to the servers and the game is gonna be online only. :/ and, given Sega's track record.... *sigh*. Wish they where making that game like the original PSO with characters being both offline/online.

I dunno - word on the street is that D3 may hit sometime in April or May. I'm still saying June officially, but that's because knowing Blizzard they always delay their titles beyond reason. What's MoP anyway?

[Meemo]

@Brixtan

Mists of Pandaria..

[Zidders]

I say around xmas 2012. I doubt they'll be happy with their product until then.

I think they'll be satisfied with it when it comes out in a few months. As far as happy? No 'true' artist worth their salt is EVER entirely 'happy' with what they've done, not if they're any good. Art isn't about perfection, it's about the struggle to attain it, even tho you know it'll always be just a bit beyond your grasp. That taste you get in your mouth and the tingle you get in the back of your brain when you know you've learned something new, or improved skills you thought you had down..that's what artists live for.

At some point, tho, you have to get it out there. Otherwise, you sit there and constantly work at it, over and over trying to get it just right. Do it too long, and not only do you end up screwing it up more often than not but you end up working at the same skills over and over and miss out on learning new ones. You need to constantly learn new things because learning new things means new ideas, new possibilities, expanding horizons, inspiration. You want that. NEED that...because if you don't, you end up stuck in a rut and suffering from the absolute worst thing that can happen to a creative person-a lack of ideas.

Being stuck in a creative rut can be a nightmare. Trust me, I know. I used to write. A LOT. I've got tens of thousands of pages sitting in boxes in my attic, stories I wrote years ago and obsessed over, writing and rewriting and constantly revising, each time becoming more critical of myself than the last. "I suck at grammar" "Noone gives a crap about what I want to write about" "It's too weird" "It's not weird enough" and so on. I'm incredibly hard on myself. Harsh, too harsh, but I can't seem to help it. So, eventually, writers block. It's one thing to post on a forum and come up with the silly things I do here, I'm not really creative here. It's another to sink your heart into a story enough that you believe in it just as much as you want your reader to.

My point is this; Runic will do the most they can do to polish their game to a point where they can be damn proud of it and they'll release it, and I know they're going to do their best to support it after release...but there will always be something they feel they could have done better. At least, I think so. That's certainly what we've seen from them so far. Another one of the reasons I have the respect for them I do. They're artists first, business people second.

[Brixtan]

@Brixtan

Mists of Pandaria..

Ah, thanks Meemo - given enough time, I'm sure I'd have figured it out. lol @ you crazy kids and your acronyms!

[Paws]

Common sense is, and will continue to be, a logical fallacy.

Also, damn it, I go away for a weekend with my guy and miss the popcorn?! PASS THE BUCKET PLEASE.

[Risingsun]

Common sense is, and will continue to be, a logical fallacy.

Also, damn it, I go away for a weekend with my guy and miss the popcorn?! PASS THE BUCKET PLEASE.

Go away for the weekend with your guy eh?