Friday Treat 3/16 Potential Loot Drops Analysis

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Friday Treat 3/16 Potential Loot Drops Analysis

Postby Jerich » Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:21 pm

Here's my analysis of today's Friday Treat (3-16-12) . http://www.torchlight2game.com/news/2012/03/16/potential-loot-drops-in-torchlight-ii/. I think I'm done for now. Let me know if you see anything else, and I'll put your comment in the first page with your name attached to it.

Loot sources have focused item drops
  • Gems often drop from rocks
  • Spells often drop from book cases
  • Uniques almost always drop from bosses, special reward chests or chests
  • Barrels are the biggest source of scrolls

How often will I need to go back to town to sell?
Answer: About ten times per act if you don't make use of your pet. With about 20 quests per act, this means you will never feel so inundated with loot that you are forced to go back mid dungeon. I think that's a big improvement over TL 1 where I had to sell at least one or two times per level.. Here' is how I calculated this info:
Spoiler: show
  • Between the character and Pet inventory there are currently 64 spots for loot (not counting stackables which go into another tab)
  • Over the course of his play (About 2 acts?) Adam found 1112 white and green items, 89 blue items, 40 uniques and 37 gems or 1278 times
  • If he filled up his packs completely before going to town, he would have had to go back a total of 1278 / 64 = about 20 times.
  • That means that even if you never use your pet to sell, you will only have to go back to town to sell about 10 times per act.
  • Considering he did 41 total quests... If we assume 1/2 of those quests are town quests... you will likely never have to go back to town to sell in the middle of a dungeon.


Reward Chests don't Disappoint
In the game, Reward Chests were a prime source of Uniques, Blue Items (Magic / Set), Gems and Spells. The biggest point of interest is that they never dropped scrolls or potions. They seem to be universally filled with good stuff and never crap. I can imagine people doing chest farming runs instead of just sticking to bosses only.

How many Bosses are there per Act and how does that Compare to TL 1?
Considering Adam has just started Act 3 and already encountered 15 main Bosses, this means there are at least about seven Bosses per act. This is perhaps not even including side bosses like the Sphinx in Act 2 that we could potentially skip if we didn't do a full clear. Considering that Torchlight 1 had eight total bosses, this means that each act is about as dense story wise as Torchlight 1. As an aside...

How often will we encounter champion / boss packs?
It looks like we will fight a champion / boss pack around every 14-15 groups of monsters. That means that at average game speed you are likely to run into a unique monster every few minutes. Here's how I calculated this:
Spoiler: show
  • Adam killed 5,742 monsters in the first twoish acts.
  • If I assume that the average pack has about five monsters in it... that is about 1148 groups of monsters.
  • Considering he ran in to 76 champion monsters, that is 15.1 groups of regular monsters per champion group.
  • Since many champions have their own boss group, there are most likely an average of 14 normal packs between each champion pack.
  • If I kill one group of monsters every 20 seconds... I would run into a champion about every five minutes.


How good will quest rewards be?
Adam got thirty-two Blue Items as rewards for a total of fourty-one quests. This means that you will be able to get significant gear upgrades from quests as you go along and they will almost always be worth attempting. For those of you who are worried that quest rewards will overshadow the loot game, quests didn't give any uniques, spells or gems and only accounted for about 1/3 of the Blue / Purple items.

Gems are precious
Adam only found thirty-seven gems in the first two acts. They are actually rarer than unique items and will be precious commodities. Luckily you won't have to save gems to later combine them like you did in Torchlight 1. You will be able to use them right away. My guess is that Adam does not religiously flip over every rock he encounters. If so, he would have most likely looted more gems.

Where are all the sets?
I believe both Unique and Blue items can be sets. We have seen them offered as quest rewards in previous videos.

Can we buy Spells?
If you notice, Adam did not purchase any spells or gems. He bought some blue items, but that is all. If this is so, considering how rare spell and gems are, people will likely get excited each time they come across a bookcase (about 1 in 4 drop a spell).

Potions?
It looks like Boss monsters drop an average of three potions each and champions drop between two and three. Other than that, the best place to get them is chests, with monsters rarely dropping them. It is interesting to note that Adam does not seem to have bought any potions. This most likely means he was not playing on Very Hard during this playthrough.

What will the item game over Torchlight II look like?
We will have to farm different areas in Torchlight II depending on what we are seeking. If we are looking for unique items, Bosses and Reward chests will be the places to hunt. If we are seeking gems or spells, though, we will want to primarily hunt champions, bookcases and rocks. Overall this seems like it will have a varied feel to it.

How does this compare to the Diablo III loot game?
From what we know about Diablo III, the developers are trying to deincentivize boss runs. After the first kill, uniques will primarily drop from normal monsters. This means that loot will be much more spread out and less focused. If I was to make a mining analogy... Diablo III will be like strip mining and Torchlight II will be more like mining ore veins.
Last edited by Jerich on Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:40 pm, edited 14 times in total.
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Re: Friday Treat 3/16 Potential Loot Drops Analysis

Postby DarkTails » Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:37 pm

Edit: Oh great, it just looks like like I copied your edited post lol
Last edited by DarkTails on Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Friday Treat 3/16 Potential Loot Drops Analysis

Postby D1Tremere » Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:38 pm

Big fan of this, practical or not it's just cool info.
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Re: Friday Treat 3/16 Potential Loot Drops Analysis

Postby Jerich » Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:06 pm

Okay. I think I am done for now. Let me know if you guys see anything else.
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Re: Friday Treat 3/16 Potential Loot Drops Analysis

Postby hawkn » Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:23 pm

Nice analysis. I'm re-reading everything to see if I notice anything new.

Either way, I'm happy with the game design.
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Re: Friday Treat 3/16 Potential Loot Drops Analysis

Postby amb2010 » Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:25 pm

Jerich = Sparknotes.

Very nice write up, infinite waffle-hearts for you. <#
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Re: Friday Treat 3/16 Potential Loot Drops Analysis

Postby Zidders » Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:35 pm

Jerich wrote:Okay. I think I am done for now. Let me know if you guys see anything else.

Spoiler: show
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8)

Seriously Jerich, awesome write up ^_^
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Re: Friday Treat 3/16 Potential Loot Drops Analysis

Postby Chthon » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:06 pm

This is... really good. Thank you.
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Re: Friday Treat 3/16 Potential Loot Drops Analysis

Postby Rusty » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:16 pm

Awesome write-up Jerich! I just looked at the pretty pictures, but you took a step back and looked at the whole picture. Thanks for the breakdown.
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Re: Friday Treat 3/16 Potential Loot Drops Analysis

Postby Krayzen » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:32 pm

Nice summary, good post Jeric and love the chart from runic too. I like the bit of flavor from stuff like rocks having a better chance to drop gems but there is one thing I'm not seeing covered Mimics? Are they still in game (I hope so) and what happens when they die do they drop as some kind of monster or do they drop based on what they were mimicking?
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Re: Friday Treat 3/16 Potential Loot Drops Analysis

Postby Jerich » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:43 pm

Thanks everyone!

Good question Krayzen. My guess it that mimics drop similarly to a chest. I did notice while playing at PAX and at Runic that reward chests are almost never given freely. You have to do a mini-event, beat some boss, or find a key to open them.
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Re: Friday Treat 3/16 Potential Loot Drops Analysis

Postby TheView » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:38 pm

Great update from Runic. Thank you Adam and Eric.
And great write up Jerich.
Really, its an amazing mechanism, just shows how much work they put behind the game.
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Re: Friday Treat 3/16 Potential Loot Drops Analysis

Postby Seer » Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:32 am

Very scientific commentary Jerich, as always, fantastic read.


The decentralized loot game in TL1 was slightly annoying, because plowing through random hordes to get a unique/something cool got old fast, whereas it's a lot more fun going against a boss, or taking a sidetrack to get to a special chest.
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Re: Friday Treat 3/16 Potential Loot Drops Analysis

Postby Darker123 » Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:23 am

Great article Jerich!

I like the gem change - drop less but make them more valuable.
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Re: Friday Treat 3/16 Potential Loot Drops Analysis

Postby adoomgod » Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:40 am

Nice Jerich! Really really nice!

The first thing, literally the first thing, that came into my mind when I was done analyzing the data was, "only forty uniques?!"

Then I realized that is the spoiled gamer than me. I then realized this is, AWESOME. Didn't JD say he named over like 1.5 thousand uniques/set pieces? Only forty in 2 acts? That's not much. You will hunger for uniques. At the same time they are farmable. Adam did a straight run thru, I believe, and did not just farm a local boss which would probably have yielded more.

Plus Adam was probably not focused on a "magic-find+" set of equipment. Also the ability to enchant/socket such a set would probably take a nice deal of gold and luck. I'm sure when me and Jerich try to optimize magic find, our rate of uniques will go up significantly :).

This is super super exciting. I'm so excited. The loot game looks so appealing to me. I have like 1.5 thousand items to find and hoard, and it's not that easy to get them.

I also wanted to ask the devs, are some uniques rarer than others? Like not by level-required-to-drop but just drop chance. Like there are 2 level 50 uniques, one significantly better. Could the lower one have like. 1/10 drop on a boss and the other 1/100? Just for example. Please please do tell me (us) devs. I will do 25 jumping jacks and scream like a girl at time square if you do. And a Doom God doing that? Terroriffic! Please!
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Re: Friday Treat 3/16 Potential Loot Drops Analysis

Postby Syl » Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:46 am

good post :)
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Re: Friday Treat 3/16 Potential Loot Drops Analysis

Postby Webbstre » Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:48 am

adoomgod wrote:I also wanted to ask the devs, are some uniques rarer than others? Like not by level-required-to-drop but just drop chance. Like there are 2 level 50 uniques, one significantly better. Could the lower one have like. 1/10 drop on a boss and the other 1/100? Just for example. Please please do tell me (us) devs. I will do 25 jumping jacks and scream like a girl at time square if you do. And a Doom God doing that? Terroriffic! Please!

Pretty sure you asked this a long time ago and the answer was some form of yes.
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Re: Friday Treat 3/16 Potential Loot Drops Analysis

Postby fkl » Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:14 am

great write-up!
-what is awesome is we need to focus on different things depending on what we need, gems beneath rocks being the most awesome of all.
-something that raises an eyebrow is too many uniques from regular chests, as much as half of the boss drops. special chests makes sense because they are tied to events and other bosses, gut regulars i don't know.
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Re: Friday Treat 3/16 Potential Loot Drops Analysis

Postby gluemchen » Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:23 am

I enjoyed reading this. Adam definetly needs to kick more rocks.
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Re: Friday Treat 3/16 Potential Loot Drops Analysis

Postby TLF » Sat Mar 17, 2012 9:18 am

Thank you, Jerich!

I haven't read all of it now but this is a very good example of how near Runic is towards the community:
[...] It's rare to get such an elaborate and clearly defined loot breakdown, and we wanted to share it with you. [...]

It's really interesting to follow the different aspects Mister Schaefer has worked out graphically with the given information. Also thanks to him and Adam for this kind of Friday treat :D
fkl wrote:[...] gems beneath rocks being the most awesome of all. [...]

It gives a little bit of treasure hunter feeling, I think. Not to forget it could always be a good idea to turn around some rocks for a little surprise.
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