Dear Runic Games,

[hawkn]

Well I'm going to a school that will either put me in the game industry, or the entertainment (animation, so movies or TV) industry. I know full well piracy happens. And maybe I'm stupid to think this, but I figure if your product is good enough, while people will pirate it, many others will buy it.

[adoomgod]

o.0

lol Doom.

Punnett, just to clarify, I think you're cool, too. I hope it didn't seem like I was coming down on you. I'd be a hypocrite if I tried to act like I was totally innocent, y'know? Like JM stated, tho. It definitely encourages developers like Runic to continue doing things the way they're doing them.

Yes Zidders. I'm so glad you quoted me like that. The whole post i wrote was done while I was telepathically *wink wink*ing you. I'm serious. This made me laugh.

[FluffyMittens]

I dont pirate games for I think its wrong and after all I want them to keep making good games so why on earth wouldnt I be willing to put money into the industry which is providing me with so much entertainment haha. That being said though I do the next worse thing lol. I buy games on amazon and then sell them back when done. Typically I end up losing less than 10 bucks and I got to play an amazing game all the way through. But developers like Runic and vigil games I pay full stinking price not only for the great game but also to support them in hopes that they will continue to make amazing games in the future.

[Ingmartin]

Pirating anything is bad.

That's it. End of story.

I just want Torchlight 2 to be done for the love of god.
Please, just get the damned thing done.

Please?










(crickets)

[Syl]

When I was young, I pirated a lot because I wanted to try everything.
Now, I don't have more time to play, my Steam account is full of games and I only played 30% of them ^^;

Some games are just too expensive, but it's not the case with Torchlight.
If you have enough money to buy a 800$ computer, you have enough money to buy a 20$ game.

And if you don't have enough money, you have to make some choices. Don't buy everything, don't buy the latest thing which cost 70$ (but will cost 20$ a few months later)...

Nowadays, I think there's really no reason to pirate. There are a lot of interesting games to play, and if you don't buy the latest shiny little thing right away and wait a little bit, you can buy pretty much everything for not so much.

Hech, even some free to play games are pretty cool (League of Legends, Aion, Lotro...)

[FluffyMittens]

I agree with syl. He has a point that there really isnt a great reason to pirate games now days. Its almost more of a pain and hassle then to just cough up a few bucks for the game. And if your really that hard up for some cash just wait a few weeks or months for the price to drop. Or you can do what I do where you buy it then sell it on amazon when your done. I typically regain 90% of my money back if I sell it back within a few months of get it. Oh and syl my steam library is like yours. I see all these amazing 90% off deals and have to buy it. But when it comes down to it i never play the games. I install the game and play it once or twice and then move on to better games haha. Prolly only 20% of library have I spent more than an hour or two on.

[JoystickMonkey]

http://gamasutra.com/blogs/LarsDoucet/2 ... encies.php here is an interesting post regarding the various costs of acquiring games.

[Ramadonis]

I used to pirate. I didn't feel a darn thing. A game came out, I wanted it, I got it. Case closed. Then something happened. Something clicked. I found a game that was just so awesome, I couldn't sit by and keep playing it for free... Yeah, it would be really sappy if I said it was Torchlight but sadly, it wasn't. TBH, I can't remember the game. That game make me discover Steam and now 130+ games later, I couldn't be happier.

Back then, I felt no real connection between the game and it's creators. They all seemed like big huge companies that didn't give a crap about their customers. I brought into that for a time. Now, this is where Runic came in. I actually saw the developers interacting directly with their fanbase. They listened, learned and actually care about what we had to say.

Now my game purchasing methods took another turn. My choices aren't completely dependent on the game itself, but who made it. If the company is shady, or just doesn't give a... then that game will be passed, or brought used. Only quality devs earn a portion of my pay check. Thanks Runic for showing me what a quality dev is!

<_< My word, that did end up kinda sappy....

[Zidders]

Ram, don't you dare feel ashamed of being sappy! Trust me, you'd have to tap a forest of maples to be as sappy as I am, lol. What a great post!

http://gamasutra.com/blogs/LarsDoucet/20120222/91144/Piracy_and_the_four_currencies.php here is an interesting post regarding the various costs of acquiring games.

<3 <3 Great article!!

Folks, i'd just like to ask that we not get all judgemental here or condemn anyone, ok?

[Ragnar119]

The article is more of western audience, where economy is strong, and paying 60$ is not that big problem,like in countries where the economy is not that good,from where most of pirates come.

This is also interesting to read http://www.positech.co.uk/talkingtopirates.html

If they want to stop piracy in big numbers (there will always be a minorty that will never pay), there are only few things they can do:
1.lower the cost of games
2.Increase the economy standard of all people that pirate

[Ramadonis]

The article is more of western audience, where economy is strong, and paying 60$ is not that big problem,like in countries where the economy is not that good,from where most of pirates come.

This is also interesting to read http://www.positech.co.uk/talkingtopirates.html

If they want to stop piracy in big numbers (there will always be a minorty that will never pay), there are only few things they can do:
1.lower the cost of games
2.Increase the economy standard of all people that pirate

Honestly, I don't see that. From my perspective, the economy is pretty bleh all around. For me, and most people I know, we don't buy games at release date prices. They drop and tend to drop quickly as of late. So 60 dollar games are pretty much a joke. Throw Steam into the mix, and they are almost completely unnecessary.

While I'm all for lowering prices of games, I'd lean more to rewarding those who do buy their games. Pirates get DRM free games at no cost but the time it takes for a game to be cracked. Time is the only currency a pirate pays in. The paying customer also pays in time, but also real money and then gets a form of DRM shoved in their face. Be it online only games, server checks while playing, limited installations, or whatever. The paying customer seem to get the raw end of the deal.

That should be switched. Make things more difficult to pirate, while making thing easier on the paying consumer. Steam is ahead of the game here by offering crazy discounts and bonus' to purchases, but I don't think this enough to sway most people. Something should be done, and sadly, I don't have much of an answer for it. I wish I did, some devs really do deserve to profit from their labor.

[Ragnar119]

Honestly, I don't see that. From my perspective, the economy is pretty bleh all around. For me, and most people I know, we don't buy games at release date prices. They drop and tend to drop quickly as of late. So 60 dollar games are pretty much a joke. Throw Steam into the mix, and they are almost completely unnecessary.

When i say countrie economy,i mean in one country you have a job and income of 200$, in other country for the same job you'll get 1200$.About that i mean. The person in his country with 200 can live normally (more or less), like person in country with 1200$ (well maybe not that good), but some thing that are made for person that has 1200$ are not available because of high cost for others.

[hawkn]

Even then, our economy really isn't all that great.

[wolfpaq777]

I wouldn't steal from publishers I don't like (like EA) because all it does is tell them that it's ok to make crappy games because even if the games crappy, it must not be THAT crappy since someone was willing to risk stealing it.

Yeah since DA2 I haven't spent one penny or pirated 1 byte of data from EA. Screw them.

[Kukuku]

I'm still waiting for Square Enix to make a western release for a game I pirated over 10 years ago. Considering I recently got inked to show how much loved it (also how crazy I am,) and it was fairly costly, I think the least I could do is purchase a copy of the game to show support, even if it's released on a platform I don't own.

[mx420]

heh I use to pirate games, and i still do lol. I'm pretty sure its not illegal (Not gona go into details here) but that aside, If i download a game that i end up playing a lot, i buy it. Games like Sins of a Solar Empire (amazing btw) and the settlers 7.. amoung many others, would NEVER have been purchased had i not downloaded the full copies first and played through a large chunk of the game( "trials" now adays do not show anything imo)

Torchlight 1, ill admit, I downloaded and never bought.. :O OMG right?! but to be honest with you, i made ONE character, played it to the *first* boss (i think... it was awhile ago but some guy.. transformed into somthing bigger) and that was it. i never played past that. I like how the game felt, and the idea behind a lot of the things and that it played like a d2 clone, but i NEVER played it (honestly) because of lack of multiplayer alone... so it never got my $$. (I've owned d2 since it came out and to this day i dont have ONE single player character.. im just wierd like that... i need to show my shit off and play with others!)

Torchlight 2 will be getting my $$ for a few reasons
1. I already know the quality will be good because this will be better then the first... which ive tried already
2. it has multiplayer
3. .... LAN!!! is one of those multiplayer options!
4. a company that realises charging the same money for a dd as a boxed copy is bs.
5. they are taking too long to make it.. ie realising it when it is ready

At $20, the fiance and I will each get a copy and we will probably buy 2 more for her much younger twin sisters (which are gamers cause of me hahah)

Runic thanks for sticking to your roots, cant wait to see the info that comes out over the next few days.

[Syl]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZZx1xmAzg

^^;

[xani]

heh I use to pirate games, and i still do lol. I'm pretty sure its not illegal (Not gona go into details here) but that aside, If i download a game that i end up playing a lot, i buy it. Games like Sins of a Solar Empire (amazing btw) and the settlers 7.. amoung many others, would NEVER have been purchased had i not downloaded the full copies first and played through a large chunk of the game( "trials" now adays do not show anything imo)

It is illegal pretty much anywhere, tho it's not "big" crime (dunno what's proper legal term for it) so in most countries you wont go to jail for that one, only fine ar sth (tho bastards in some countries want to change it -_-). Tho if they catch you on sharing (basically taking profit on it) that's usually much more severe.

Argument "I will buy it if I like it pirated version" is silly, it's like going to cinema, watching first hour and then demanding refund because you didn't like movie. Or reading first 100 pages of book and returning it.

That said, distributors are sometimes desperately trying to push unfinished games to buyers, or blatantly lying to them, and trying to get most of them preordered.
One of typical ones is providing reviewer copies to those magazines/game sites who will sign "I will give that game at least 4/5 stars / 8/10", basically making them lie to gamers even if game have blatant flaws.

No trial is a big problem, and it kinda always been, most titles don't have it so only way to have any insight on if game will be fun or not is watching random videos on youtube. Some games had good demos (Bastion, Trine 2, ME3, KoA:R, Darkness 2), in other ones open beta was basically a "demo", some were just tutorial and nothing more.
IMO good demo should be tutorial + first short lvl (to test things learned in tut.) + some early mid lvl with some skills and more advanced game mechanics to play around. Sadly that happens pretty rare

[pothb]

Argument "I will buy it if I like it pirated version" is silly, it's like going to cinema, watching first hour and then demanding refund because you didn't like movie. Or reading first 100 pages of book and returning it.

Eh I disagree... Its more like borrow a book or movie from a friend/library and then deciding it is worth to buy&keep/support it's creators. In both cases of piracy and my analogy, it's free at first, then pay after finding yourself satisfied enough about the product.

Not saying it's really any better, but meh, it's an argument. One that neither side will probably give in. I just wanted to get my thoughts out there.

That said, I of like minds with the TC, it makes me feel proud to help and support the creators of things I like, while I regret buying things from ones I don't. And it makes me feel pissed off that I can't take it back to show them their product sucked.

[amb2010]

As long as both sides can agree on the fact that it is by no means alright to pirate games then there's no problem. Piracy is labeled as "theft" for a few reasons, one being the industry wants you to feel really really bad about doing it and another being the fact that there isn't really another legal term to identify it so the best fitting one gets attached, and that's theft. Unless you folks know of a legal term for "copy pasting a valuable without the consent or payment to the owner". Perhaps legislation will catch up and clearly define piracy and it's punishments but until then there's no real point to skirt around the issue by going "lololol it's not theft" and talking about cloning pigs or cars. It's bad either way.