Pre-purchase

[warbandit]

Hello, i sign up to forums because i tought of an ideia on a way to sort of evade a certain game.
Not sure if even possible but why not try like GW2 or Sins of solar empire where they offering pre purchase now and a chance to demo/beta there game, could maybe offer beta weekends or maybe Act1, that way you guys could start selling the game now and get feedback thous evading a certain game in a sense

[D2Hans]

They likely have looked into that but decided it is best not to go that method.

I do not like the idea off giving beta to pre-purchase players. I prefer if beta is either opened for all (stress test) or to a select few that actually do real beta testing and finding glitches, bugs and give feedback on on the whole game, whether it is good or bad. If it is bad it should be in constructive form on why it is bad and if possible on ways to improve it.

Beta is not just about playing the game but it is work to make the game better.

[amb2010]

Cause in all honesty it actually does the opposite of what you want it to do. Take WoW for example first, they threw out the Annual Pass with the incentive of getting into the MoP beta (before the PTR of course). All well and good right? Sure, until they had a ton of people sign up. More than their server for the beta would be able to handle and were forced to redo the contract so they simply had to let you in at some point (causing many angry WoW-fans).

GW2's beta access I imagine will equally be difficult to orchestrate based on their 48 hour beta sign up that occurred a bit ago, it resulted in what over a million people signing up? The point of a beta is a controlled test to find bugs and stress test, the moment you unleash millions of people into it is the moment it goes from that to "Lol I'm in the beta *ignores surveys*!".

Obviously TL2 won't have a million people (or will it ) but it still goes against everything a beta is about when you lose the ability to control who gets in in a fair matter. If you want 100 people to test it, what happens when 250 people pre-order? You either go with it, or edit it around like Blizzard did. Both have horrible consequences.

Also TL2 doesn't really need a beta. While it does have online, it lacks a majority of the features that require beta testing. There's no stress testing since it's not hosted on a server or anything and balance isn't really that big a deal since it's not competitive PvP. That said testing it thoroughly won't hurt, making sure the friends list and lobby works is important. Balance to a lesser extent as well since we don't need rofl-stomper-ember-lances big brother being the #1 class played but that's all stuff that requires small scale testing, not big fancy beta weekends.

[Zidders]

What it comes down to is that the beta will be small, friends and family only. They likely won't do a pre-order because they're a small team and setting up any kind of preorder would take time and resources that could go into making the game that much better. Considering just how often they stress the fact that they a)have a small team b)want to stay small c)Don't have the resources to put into things like soundtrack releases, despite wanting to and d)are totally focused on polishing the game, gives me the general impression that they're not going to have any kind of preorder.

The main reason I don't think it'll happen is that the game is $20. With the kind of hype this game is getting (and trust me, it's getting a ton of hype. Every time someone does an article on Diablo III, Torchlight II ALWAYS gets mentioned, either in the article or in the comments) and the fact that it's multiplayer and cheap, they really don't need to do a preorder.

Will they? Who can say. We're probably still a ways from release, i'm sure we'll find out one way or the other wether or not it's going to happen or not.

[Seer]

I'm actually pretty glad Runic isn't adopting shit practices like this.

[xani]

Obviously TL2 won't have a million people (or will it ) but it still goes against everything a beta is about when you lose the ability to control who gets in in a fair matter. If you want 100 people to test it, what happens when 250 people pre-order? You either go with it, or edit it around like Blizzard did. Both have horrible consequences.

If there would be a open beta before D3 it probably would, just because D3 ppl would be bored and take anything similiar

These days ppl use betas as basically demo version of game. And while its flawed (beta is unfinished, and its supposed to be about getting feedback from players etc.) sometimes it's a good thing, but mostly in MMOs, as those often cost full game price AND have subscription.

IMO Blizz did it nicely with WoW, you can play (if I remember correctly) first 20 lvls for free. And while it doesn't tell much about how fun game will be after you lvled your character it's better than nothing

[kaosweilder]

I personally think there is nothing wrong with pre-orders being up. At least through their own website as Steam doesn't let you do that 2-3 months before release date. I'd love to pre-order and maybe will do one for my cousin as well, or maybe if they have a Digital Deluxe edition then I'll buy that. Looking at the game, I would buy it right now if it was available in "digital download later" form. This is separate from the talk of Beta though. Don't really care about an open beta much but pre-ordering, sure why not ?

[Zidders]

I'm actually pretty glad Runic isn't adopting shit practices like this.

How is being able to buy something early, at a lesser price, with extra goodies, a bad thing? Especially for a $20 title? I mean, unless you're cash strapped during the pre-order period. Even so, it's not like you can't wait till later and get it for sale. Sure, you miss out on the extra goodies but it's not like you're going to miss out on anything huge. Story based DLC that contains important story elements (ala DE:HR)? Then I can see calling it a shit practice, but Runic offering a preorder generally benefits the consumer. If anything, they're the ones that would take a bit of a bath by offering a preorder.

[hawkn]

I like pre-orders, just not on $20 games, with no real incentives that can't be modded in.

[warbandit]

I personally think there is nothing wrong with pre-orders being up. At least through their own website as Steam doesn't let you do that 2-3 months before release date. I'd love to pre-order and maybe will do one for my cousin as well, or maybe if they have a Digital Deluxe edition then I'll buy that. Looking at the game, I would buy it right now if it was available in "digital download later" form. This is separate from the talk of Beta though. Don't really care about an open beta much but pre-ordering, sure why not ?

But if im seeing right steam is selling sins of solar empire rebelion coming out in june

[Webbstre]

I would guess that Steam might have it available for pre-order/pre-purchase once a release date is announced. I doubt they would before that point though. Other than that... no idea.

[kaosweilder]

But if im seeing right steam is selling sins of solar empire rebelion coming out in june

I think that falls in 2-3 months window and its release date must be public for that to have happened I don't remember the link, but I am pretty sure I read it somewhere that Steam has such a policy. So if tomorrow say TL2 is announced for a mid June release date, then technically Runic would be allowed to set up pre-orders through Steam is what I meant. Besides that, if they do it through their own website, there is technically no such limitation

[Seer]

I'm actually pretty glad Runic isn't adopting shit practices like this.

How is being able to buy something early, at a lesser price, with extra goodies, a bad thing? Especially for a $20 title? I mean, unless you're cash strapped during the pre-order period. Even so, it's not like you can't wait till later and get it for sale. Sure, you miss out on the extra goodies but it's not like you're going to miss out on anything huge. Story based DLC that contains important story elements (ala DE:HR)? Then I can see calling it a shit practice, but Runic offering a preorder generally benefits the consumer. If anything, they're the ones that would take a bit of a bath by offering a preorder.

I was referring to cash grab "beta" sign ups, should have been more specific.

[xani]

I like steam preorders coz then I can preload the game before and on day of release I just come back from work, turn on PC and almost instantly I can play . But for that 1w preorder is enougth

[Jackalhead]

I'm actually pretty glad Runic isn't adopting shit practices like this.

i'm very much with you on this one.

[Zidders]

Ok, here's what I want to know. What about it is shitty? Is it the concept in general, or do you mean the specific way certain publishers and developers go about it?

The reason i'm asking is because i've seen many different kinds of pre-order setups. I think hating on pre-orders just because they're pre-orders ignores the positive effect that pre-orders can have. What's the difference, for instance, between a kickstarter campaign and a pre-order? What's the difference between pre-ordering and crowd sourcing/funding? Take Grim Dawn, for instance. They've had a pre-order/donation system in place for awhile now, and are planning a kickstarter. While crowd sourcing/funding/kickstarter type stuff is different from what you two are talking about, it's not really that different.


The point i'm trying to make is that you shouldn't be so quick to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I also think Runic has earned a little faith from people. I doubt if they did a pre-order that they'd screw anyone over with it...tho I don't get how you'd screw people over by giving them a discount on the full price and extra goodies.

[turnipz]

A lot of companies withhold content just to try to scrounge some more cash out of people, so your paying for an incomplete game essentially. Its nice to know when you arent missing out of something.

[hawkn]

$20 isn't exactly much of a gamble. Then again, I'm happy to pay $150 for my GW2 pre-order.

[Zidders]

A lot of companies withhold content just to try to scrounge some more cash out of people, so your paying for an incomplete game essentially. Its nice to know when you arent missing out of something.

And just as many don't. That's my point.

[gold163]

err... I believe he specified that he was referring to pre-order guarantees like "beta tests" that are used primarily for marketing the game, or things such as pre-order specific game content. Those are the pre-order practices that I'd argue are "shitty". Woah. Deja vu. I feel like I've said this before and nobody really cared, but whatever.

Other than that I don't have a problem with pre-orders and I don't think most people do either.

But Zidders, just because a lot of companies don't adhere to the same sort of bad practice doesn't mean it's not a bad practice. In this case, the bad practice being that pre-orders are used as a sort of marketing leverage, which imo is a bit scummy. That being said, I can't imagine Runic would ever do something like that anyway. I'm pretty sure after seeing the ferret being modded in they've realized that adding exclusive content isn't really worth it, and a pre-purchase beta would just conjure up a shitstorm because the game doesn't really need a mass beta.